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      An Exploration of the relationship of Church and State
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     <h2 class="date-header">Monday, 25 May 2009</h2>
      
   <div class="post"><a name=8></a>
    <h3 class="post-title">Keep Partisan Politics out of Religion and Education</h3>
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Dear Senator,<br>
<br>
I've called and written to my Senator, Steve Ogden, several times to
express my view that Dr. McLeroy, while very nice, polite and seemingly
sincere (I've met and chatted with him personally),&nbsp; perhaps even an
appropriate representative of College Station and Byron, is simply
unacceptable as&nbsp; Chairman of the State Board of Education.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
I haven't arrived at this position easily or lightly.&nbsp; I've explored at
great length the material and information on&nbsp; 'fixed earth' web sites
including the one by Marshall Hall that Dr. McLeroy recommends so
highly. While I can see how they might meet the religious needs of some
people, I don't think the doctrine that the 'earth is fixed' and that
'religion and science are locked in a death struggle' is really an
appropriate orientation for the person serving as Chairman of the State
Board of Education in Texas.&nbsp;&nbsp; My confidence in my judgment increased
yesterday when I read their claim that the Hubble telescope is a fraud,
as are the so-called photographs of 'outer space'. <br>
<br>
It's not necessary to place science and religion in opposition. Most
people do not. I sincerely hope that most Texans do not, that most hope
for an educational system that keeps the spirit of scientific discovery
alive so that our children and grandchildren can become participants
and not merely servants in this enterprise.&nbsp; We don't need a chairman
intent on leading us back to the dark ages when a doctrinal faith in
the 'six days of creation' was appropriate. People didn't know better
back then. Most people know better now but a few have a hard time
accepting it. These few are valued for their contribution to our
religious diversity but ought not be driving our educational endeavors.<br>
<br>
Again, it isn't necessary to place science and religion in opposition
to one another. e. e. cummings wrote, "<a href="http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/one-s-not-half-two-it-s-two-are-halves-of-one/">one's
not half of two, it's two are halves of one.</a>"&nbsp; A horse has two
sides and it's not just 'one side against the other'. We need to
straddle both sides to ride the horse forward. <br>
<br>
Education is too important to be sacrificed on the alter of partisan
politics. Let's find a chairman, someone like Bob Craig from Lubbock,
who reflects Republican ideals but has not felt it necessary to turn
his back on science as a demonstration of his religious faith.&nbsp; The
first step in that direction will be to tell the Governor "No, we do
not support your choice for chairman of the board."<br>
<br>
Once again, I've expressed these hopes and fears to my own senator and
have urged him to rise to this higher patriotism but&nbsp; Senator Ogden has
remained non-committal and sometimes I get scared.&nbsp; Please keep an eye
on him. Let your eyes be upon him and the eyes of Texas upon you.<br>
<br>
Very Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ian E. Reid<br>
12802 Modena Trail<br>
Austin, Texas 78729<br>
(512) 394-8994<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ireid@realtime.net">ireid@realtime.net</a>&nbsp; (preferred)<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blogs.realtime.net/blogs/church&state/">http://blogs.realtime.net/blogs/church&amp;state/</a><br>
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      <em>Ian Reid @ 14:52 PM</em>
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     <h2 class="date-header">Thursday, 21 May 2009</h2>
      
   <div class="post"><a name=7></a>
    <h3 class="post-title">Venus</h3>
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Dear Senator,<br>
<br>
I woke up early this morning and went out for a walk before the doves
broke the still of the night with their calling. That was nice and it
was a special treat for me to catch sight of a crescent moon in the
Eastern sky along with a good view of Venus,&nbsp; just a little to the
right of the moon.<br>
<br>
Of course Venus wasn't labeled; some knowledge of the detailed
observations of celestial objects is necessary to know what we are
seeing when we gaze into the sky and why we are seeing it.&nbsp; Otherwise
we might think that all the celestial objects, save the sun and the
moon, circle daily around our planet as is stated in Genesis.&nbsp; People
then didn't have the knowledge that we have now.<br>
<br>
But Venus never reaches the zenith. It appears only as 'the morning
star' or&nbsp; the 'evening star'&nbsp; depending on where it is in terms of it's
own orbit around the sun.&nbsp; It was partly his careful observation of
Venus that led <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei">Galileo</a>
to support the <a href="http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/retrograde/copernican.html">Copernican
model</a> of the universe.&nbsp; Still, people ignorant of his observations
(as well as the observations of many others) might&nbsp; subscribe to a
geocentric view based on casual observation or 'teaching',&nbsp; but it's
only a stubborn resistance to knowledge that enables one to do so for a
prolonged period of time.<br>
<br>
Which brings me to the point of this message. While every district
selects a representative of their choice to serve on the State Board of
Education, the appointment of one to serve as Chairman of the State
Board of Education is a decision that affects all of us and reflects on
the character of our state.&nbsp; You will be called upon in the vote on the
confirmation of Don McLeroy, an avowed and arrogant <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/earthdeception/">geocentrist</a>,
as chairman of the SBOE. I'm urging you to resist and to stand up for
knowledge and education but the choice is yours.You also have your
political interests to protect.<br>
<br>
Let me close with an excerpt from a note to a friend:<br>
"We've discussed these things before, Gene, and I wonder if you simply
don't bother with the sources I send you or if you simply forget.&nbsp;
Here's another: <a href="http://www.reason.com/news/show/31942.html"><b><big>GOP's
"Christian Nation"&nbsp; New excuses for a bad idea.</big></b></a><br>
<br>
The good news is that not all Republicans support the GOP platform here
in Texas, especially since it's been dictated in an effort to appeal to
the extremists on the right who contend that the earth is standing
still.&nbsp; This may be coming to a vote in the state senate next week.&nbsp;
Hold your breath. It may be an 'earth stopping moment' in history."<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blogs.realtime.net/blogs/church&state/">http://blogs.realtime.net/blogs/church&amp;state/</a><br>
<br>
Please feel free to call upon me for clarification or for additional
information or resources if desired.&nbsp; I stand firmly in support of
public education and am happy to serve.<br>
<br>
Very Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ian E. Reid, Ph. D.<br>
12802 Modena Trail<br>
Austin, Texas 78729<br>
(512) 394-8994<br>
<br>
<br>
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      <em>Ian Reid @ 22:11 PM</em>
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     <h2 class="date-header">Thursday, 07 May 2009</h2>
      
   <div class="post"><a name=5></a>
    <h3 class="post-title">On The Defamation of Texas</h3>
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Ladies and Gentlemen, <br>
<br>
I was hoping that this article would be largely irrelevant now but I've
been advised that Governor Perry had the gall to re-nominate Dr.
McLeroy to be Chairman of the State Board Of Education.&nbsp; If I've been
misinformed on this point, well, enjoy the article but relax.<br>
<br>
Creationism rears its head in Texas schools<br>
The Texas State Board of Education is using its powers to ensure that
textbooks give a nod to creationist theories.<br>
Susan McCarthy, gardian.co.uk<br>
Thursday 30 April 2009<br>
<div id="article-wrapper">
<p>"In the first place God made idiots. This was for practice. Then he
made school boards."</p>
<p>Mark
Twain wrote that in 1897, and Americans still quote it, with feeling.
It comes to mind for many observers of a current battle over science
education in Texas.</p>
<p>Texas's school board, the <a href="http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/sboe/" title="">State Board of
Education</a> (BOE), has been fighting about standards for science
textbooks the state buys. Since March, <a href="http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/DN-mcleroy_23tex.ART.State.Edition1.4ab3460.html" title="">clamorous attention</a>
has focused on a proposal to require that texts discuss the "strengths
and weaknesses" of evolutionary theory. Everyone knew this was a ploy
to get creationist ideas into the classroom. The scientific community
was relieved when the BOE finally voted not to include that language &#8211;
and dismayed when it then voted for amendments that mandate the same
thing. The BOE's exuberant chair says he's not afraid to "stand up to
the experts."</p>
<p>"One day they slammed the door on <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/creationism">creationism</a>,
and the next day they ran around opening the windows to let it back
in," says Dan Quinn, communications director at the Texas Freedom
Network, an organisation that works for "a mainstream agenda of
religious freedom and individual liberties."</p>
<p>The strategy may
ultimately fail. When the eyes of Texas finally fell upon the BOE's
antics, when scientists thronged to testify against the standards, when
BOE chairman Don McLeroy declared his anti-expert stance, when a White
House official called it "<a href="http://ncseweb.org/news/2009/04/white-house-science-advisor-deplores-texas-standards-004727" title="">a step backward</a>" &#8211; opposition began to stir among state
lawmakers.</p>
<p>Unhappiness
was more than statewide. Texas is hugely influential in textbook
publishing, not just because it buys books for 4.5 million kids. It's
one of 20-odd "adoption states", which compile lists of approved books.
Publishers want their books on these lists, so they heed state
standards. Texas spends $500m a year on approved textbooks.</p>
<p>Publishers
create textbooks to meet state standards. They self-censor in advance
and rewrite when pressure groups complain about the depiction of
religious or ethnic groups, gender roles, or historical events. To
appease social conservatives, health science books stopped mentioning
contraception.</p>
<p>Some fear publishers will tailor textbooks to the new Texas
standards. <a href="http://www.biosci.utexas.edu/ib/faculty/HILLIS.HTM" title="">David Hillis</a>,
a professor of integrative biology at the University of Texas (and a
MacArthur Prize recipient who raises longhorns at his Double Helix
ranch) has battled the new BOE standards. No reputable scientist would
be associated with textbooks written to these standards, he says.
Indeed, "I think no reputable publisher is going to soil their name
with such textbooks."</p>
<p>The BOE's actions might seem odd for a
educational entity, but the explanation lies in its origins. The right
has been taking an interest in school boards. "There were vicious
campaigns in the last elections," Quinn says. Flyers showed "half-naked
men kissing, pictures of needles..." Moderates were accused of wanting
to teach about "needle exchange, and condoms, and same-sex marriage,
and assisted suicide."</p>
<p>In Texas, the governor appoints a BOE
member as chair. Republican governor Rick Perry selected Dr Don
McLeroy, a dentist and young-earth creationist. Perry is running for
re-election. "Social conservatives are very important to the governor,"
Quinn says. McLeroy, appointed between sessions, has yet to be
confirmed by the state senate.</p>
<p>McLeroy gloats over the idea of
textbooks using the Texas standards to discuss the fossil record or the
complexity of the cell. "I'm curious to see how they'll cover these
subjects. I think the science behind those things is pretty weak." He
runs through some creationist favourites &#8211; the <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/03/4/l_034_02.html" title="">Cambrian explosion</a>, the <a href="http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html" title="">flagellum</a>. "They haven't come up with an explanation of
the eye. They haven't. They haven't!"</p>
<p>"So
you want to see them fail to come up with scientific explanations for
these things?" I ask. "Absolutely! That's what I think will happen. The
kids can sit there and judge for themselves." Children are intuitively
skeptical about <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/evolution">evolution</a>,
he says.</p>
<p>Where
does this leave science education in Texas? McLeroy's confirmation is
looking chancey, and bills have been introduced to attack the situation
from different angles. Two Houston Democrats propose transferring
authority over textbooks from the BOE to the Texas Education Agency.
"Those people are much more qualified," says David Hillis. "I'm hopeful
that it will become much less political and much more focused on
educating."</p>
<p>Hillis says Texas's high school curriculum is already
behind. "We have some excellent high schools in Texas and some
excellent teachers. And we have high schools where they're teaching
18th or 19th century science." If the new standards prevail, more
entering students will be unprepared. "If students don't have any
evolutionary biology, that means even more remedial education we have
to do."</p>
<p>Often, you don't have to believe in science to benefit
from it. You don't have to believe in photons to flip a switch and get
light. You don't have to think geologists understand fossil fuel
origins to fill a tank of gas. You don't have to believe in natural
selection to take a new antibiotic for bronchitis.</p>
<p>But to do
medical research, it helps to understand natural selection. To get good
scientists, it helps if they don't have to play catch-up for half their
college years. And to get informed voters, it helps not to teach them
that science is a matter of personal intuition. Or fundamentalist faith.<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/apr/30/texas-school-creationism-textbooks">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/apr/30/texas-school-creationism-textbooks</a></p>
<p>Let me close with a link to an editorial from the New York Times
that has bearing on this issue, one that has been referenced by Dr.
McLeroy himself.&nbsp; <br>
</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/apr/30/texas-school-creationism-textbooks">In
Defense of Nonsense</a><br>
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      <em>Ian Reid @ 18:57 PM</em>
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   <div class="post"><a name=4></a>
    <h3 class="post-title">You essay on equity</h3>
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Dear Dr. McLeroy,<br>
<br>
While reading your essay on equity I paused when I came to this passage:<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: Arial;">"This
is
the way our founding fathers were taught. Henry Grady Weaver described
it thus:
<o:p></o:p></span>
<i><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: Arial;">Before
he was sixteen, the philosophy and history of the
entire European past had been pounded into his head.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Thus
when he was old enough to begin thinking
things out for himself, he had in his own mind a storehouse of
knowledge,
covering thousands of years of human experience. Also, he was drilled
in logic
and the accurate meaning of words as a protection against fallacies of
fancy
rhetoric!<span class="MsoFootnoteReference"> (</span></span></i><u><span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: Arial;">The
Mainspring of
Human Progress</span></u><span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: Arial;">, Henry
Grady Weaver, 1947<span class="GramE">,p</span> 192)"<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://dmcleroy.home.att.net/Philosophy/AchievingEquity.htm">http://dmcleroy.home.att.net/Philosophy/AchievingEquity.htm</a><br>
<br>
<big><font face="Arial">I'm always suspicious when I encounter pronouns
without antecedents and often look for the source so I might better
know what one might be talking about.&nbsp; I actually found another source
for much of what you wrote and am happy to share it with you:</font></big><br>
</span>
<p><strong>"Democracy" by Rose Wilder Lane</strong></p>
<p>Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, John Adams, Madison, and Monroe
feared democracy.</p>
<p>They were educated men. Excepting Franklin (self-educated), each one
had the education of an English gentleman. That is, the philosophy and
the history of the whole European past had been pounded into his head
before he was twelve years old. Therefore, when he was old enough to
think for himself, he had thousands of years of human experience with
every form of Government, to think about.</p>
<p>This knowledge was then regarded as necessary to every man whose
birth entitled him to take any part in the government of his country.</p>
<p>They also knew the meaning of every word they used; they knew its
Greek, Latin, or Anglo-Saxon root. Until forty years ago, this
knowledge was still considered of first importance in American schools.
Every pupil, at thirteen and fourteen, learned etymology as he had
learned spelling since the age of six, by dogged repetition until the
facts were fixed in his mind."</p>
<span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: Arial;"><big><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mises.org/story/2602">http://mises.org/story/2602</a><br>
<br>
The mystery of the similarity of the two was stripped when I finally
got into the preface to Weaver's book:<br>
<br>
"In an "author's notation" in the first printing of the book,<br>
Mr. Weaver states: "In some respects, Mainspring is a condensation<br>
of Rose Wilder Lane's book, The Discovery of<br>
Freedom. In other respects, it is an amplification. Inspired<br>
by her thesis and with her gracious consent, I've tried to retell<br>
her story in my own way, making liberal use of her material<br>
-plus ideas growing out of personal experiences and gathered<br>
from various sources. Mrs. Lane should not be blamed for any<br>
omissions, deviations, and additions. (She does not always<br>
agree with me-and vice versal)"<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mises.org/books/mainspring.pdf">http://mises.org/books/mainspring.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial">Now that I have found the source of your quotation
it's interesting, at least to me, so see it in context and to see what
you omitted.<br>
<br>
<font color="#ff0000"><br>
</font></font><font color="#ff0000">"Obviously, there can be no
individual freedom unless the<br>
rights of the minority are protected; and in an unrestrained<br>
democracy, it's too easy for the organized pressure<br>
groups to infringe on the rights of others.</font><br>
<font color="#ff0000"><br>
"To be fitted for public office in later life, it was then considered<br>
necessary for a boy to be given the education of an English gentleman.</font><br>
Before he was sixteen, the philosophy and history of the<br>
entire European past had been pounded into his head. Thus, when<br>
he was old enough to begin thinking things out for himself, he<br>
had within his own mind a storehouse of knowledge covering<br>
thousands of years of human experience. Also, he was drilled in<br>
logic and the accurate meaning of words, as essential to straight
thinking<br>
and as a protection against the fallacies of fancy rhetoric!<br>
(<font color="#ff0000">One of these days, I hope to write a book, or at
least a pamphlet,<br>
on the educational techniques that produced such men as Washington,<br>
Jefferson, and Madison - with a special chapter on the<br>
Donald Robertson School. )</font><br>
p. 192 <u>Mainspring</u>&nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mises.org/books/mainspring.pdf">http://mises.org/books/mainspring.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial">Today I'm left wondering just how much Weaver might
have known about Donald Robertson.&nbsp; Precious little knowledge about him
and his school seems to have survived to this day.&nbsp; Here's an excerpt
from an author who, I am sure, had her interest in Robertson piqued by
the same quotation as did Weaver.<br>
<br>
</font></big></span>
<p class="c99">By Dorothy A. Boyd-Rush, Ph.D.</p>
<p class="c101">INDIVIDUALS SURROUNDED BY MYSTERY are often
described as "intriguing" and "fascinating." Unfortunately, they
can also be referred to in less-flattering terms.<span class="c100">&nbsp;</span>
Terms like "maddening,"<span class="c100">&nbsp;</span> "frustrating" and
"disappointing" immediately
come to mind. One such maddening and intriguing individual was
Donald Robertson, an 18th-century teacher and schoolmaster in
Colonial Virginia. One of his pupils, late in life, reportedly
stated that <font color="#ff0000">"all that I have been in life I owe
largely to that
man."</font> That pupil was none other than James Madison, fourth
president of the United States and a man not given to making casual
compliments.&nbsp; (color added)<br>
</p>
<p class="c101">For a man who undoubtedly influenced the lives of
many in the school he established in King and Queen County, Va., we
know remarkably little about Donald Robertson - beyond the obvious:
That he must have been an extraordinary teacher and likely the
first to expose the minds of his pupils to the ideas of the
Enlightenment, the political questions of the age, the classics and
the boundless capabilities of the human spirit.</p>
<p class="c101">At the personal level, Robertson was a Scotsman,
born in Aberdeen on Sept. 27, 1717, to Charles Robertson and his
wife, Isabella McDonald. The father was an ardent supporter of the
Stuarts, even participating at the age of 65 years at the disastrous
battle
of Culloden in 1745. The son did not. He was then married and
living in Edinburgh.</p>
<p class="c101">Donald Robertson's first wife was Henrietta
Maxwell, from an influential family who supported the Hanoverian
government rather than the Stuarts during the Jacobite revolts of
the 18th century. Probably due to the depressed conditions in
Scotland during the 1740s, Donald Robertson set sail for the New
World in 1752, shortly before the death of his mother and the death
of his wife. Robertson's Latin Bible records not only his date of
birth but also the date of his arrival in Virginia, the latter
occurring on March 29, 1752. The entries recorded in his Bible are
cited in a family history published in 1897 by one of his
descendants, William Kyle Anderson, but, unfortunately, the
whereabouts of the Bible today is unknown.</p>
<p class="c101">After arriving in Virginia, Robertson had no
difficulty finding employment. Given that he attended the
University of Edinburgh and was very likely a licensed preacher of
the gospel, he was immediately hired by Col. John Baylor of New
Market, a prominent member of the community in King and Queen
County, which was created from New Kent County in 1691. After
several years of being a successful tutor, Robertson, in a
characteristically entrepreneurial move, decided to establish a
private boarding school in the area in which he had been living.
Donald Robertson's school was located on a farm overlooking the
Mattapony River, about four miles above the present Dunkirk Bridge,
where King and Queen County and King William County converge.
Nothing remains of the original brick structure. As King and Queen
County is one of Virginia's "burnt counties," next to nothing
remains of the records associated with any of Robertson's holdings.
Both his real and his personal property are largely left to the
imagination. Two exceptions include a tax record for 1782 that
surfaced in 1961 after being missing since 1864, a record that
indicates that Robertson's land holdings in 1782 consisted of 150
acres, and one volume devoted to King and Queen County in the
Virginia Colonial Abstracts series that records the sale of 31
slaves after the death of Robertson's wife in 1799."</p>
<span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: Arial;"><big><font face="Arial"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.jmu.edu/montpelier/2003Spring/MoldingAFoundingFather.shtml">http://www.jmu.edu/montpelier/2003Spring/MoldingAFoundingFather.shtml</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Now I'll admit that a lot of it was skimming but I've completed the
reading of your essay and I wonder if you actually ended up where you
actually began.&nbsp; In you view, do we need to be pounding more facts into
the heads of our children?&nbsp; <br>
<br>
And one other question, if I may.&nbsp; If I hold a ball close to the
ceiling -- eight feet above the floor-- and drop it, how long will it
take to hit the floor?&nbsp; Where will it be when half that time has
expired?&nbsp; Were these 'facts' a part of your curriculum?&nbsp; Would you
prescribe these 'facts' to be a part of the curriculum for our children
today?&nbsp;&nbsp; Do those facts relate at all to the fact that the moon remains
in a orbit around the earth?&nbsp; If so, how do they relate?&nbsp; If you don't
know, how would you become competent in this area of inquiry?<br>
<br>
These are the things I'm wondering right now.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ian E. Reid<br>
12802 Modena Trail<br>
Austin, Texas 78729<br>
<br>
p.s.&nbsp; I'm cc'ing Senator Odgen since he represents me (District 5) and
I've been in communication with his office seeking his support in
opposition to your confirmation as chairman of the State Board Of
Education.<br>
</font></big><br>
<br>
<br>
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      <em>Ian Reid @ 15:10 PM</em>
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   <div class="post"><a name=3></a>
    <h3 class="post-title">Your essay on 'intelligent design'</h3>
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Dear Dr. McLeroy,<br>
<br>
I seem to be having a problem with you.&nbsp; While reading your essay on
intelligent design I came across this statement:<br>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 31.5pt 0.0001pt 0.25in;">&nbsp;<i><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">A 1996 New York Times
editorial states that &#8220;this whole
issue might make for an amusing academic debate were it not for the
potentially
grave consequences for society at large. If we are unwilling
unilaterally to
brand scientific nonsense as just that, regardless of the sensibilities
might
be offended&#8212;religious or otherwise&#8212;then the whole notion of truth
itself
becomes blurred&#8230;. Our democratic society is imperiled as much by this
as any
other single threat&#8230;&#8221;<br>
</span></i></p>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://home.att.net/~dmcleroy/Textbooks/Naturalism_and_Intelligent_Design.htm">http://home.att.net/~dmcleroy/Textbooks/Naturalism_and_Intelligent_Design.htm</a><br>
<br>
You've made it appear that an editorial writer for the New York Times
was somehow supporting Intelligent Design (and, according to your
logic, opposing naturalism) but nothing could be further from the
truth. Your misrepresentation is clear when we examine the context of
those remarks.&nbsp; I've changed the color of the material you omitted to <font color="#ff6600">red</font>.<br>
<br>
<pre><big><i><font face="Arial">"This whole issue might make for simply an amusing academic debate
were it not for the potentially grave consequences for society at
large.

If  we are unwilling, unilaterally,  to brand scientific nonsense as
just that, regardless of whose sensibilities might be offended --
religious or otherwise -- then the whole notion of truth itself becomes
blurred.
</font><font color="#ff6600" face="Arial">
The need to present both sides of an issue is only necessary when
there are two sides. When empirically verifiable falsehoods become
instead subjects for debate, then nonsense associated with
international conspiracy theories, holocaust denials and popular
demagogues like Louis Farrakhan or Pat Robertson cannot effectively
be rooted out.</font><font face="Arial">

</font><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial">When nonsense which can be empirically falsified is presented under
a creationist guise as critical thinking, a controversy is created in
our schools where none should exist. When the empirically falsifiable
supposition  that someone was not present at a murder when his DNA is
found mixed with the blood of victims at the crime scene is not
recognized as  nonsense, murderers can go home free.  Nonsense
masquerading as truth has been with us as long as records can date.

But the increasingly  blatant nature of the nonsense uttered with
impunity in public discourse is chilling. </font><font face="Arial"> Our democratic society is
imperiled as much by this as any other single threat,</font><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial">  regardless of
whether the origins of the nonsense are religious fanaticism, simple
ignorance or personal gain.</font></i></big>
</pre>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.imsc.res.in/~jayaram/Sokal/nyt730.html">http://www.imsc.res.in/~jayaram/Sokal/nyt730.html</a><br>
<br>
It seems to me that if you read and understood the article you would
have known the whole thing was prompted by the fact that Pat Robertson
had, as a presidential candidate, espoused his views on "Creationism"
and had not elicited a public reaction to his nonsense.<br>
<br>
I'm left feeling puzzled.&nbsp; I don't know if you simply failed to
understand what you were reading or if you've deliberately distorted
and misrepresented the author, perhaps as some sort of cynical joke.&nbsp;
Please tell me, what's going on here?&nbsp; Have I gotten the whole matter
wrong? Please correct me if you can.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ian E. Reid<br>
12802 Modena Trail<br>
Austin, Texas 78729<br>
<br>
p.s. Many thanks for the reference to that editorial. It was new to me
and much appreciated!<br>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;<br>
<br>
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      <em>Ian Reid @ 14:18 PM</em>
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     <h2 class="date-header">Wednesday, 06 May 2009</h2>
      
   <div class="post"><a name=2></a>
    <h3 class="post-title">State Board of Education</h3>
    <div class="post-body">
      <p>Dear Senator Ogden,<br><br>I called your office earlier today with the desire to encourage you to vote against the confirmation of Dr. McLeroy as Chairman of the State Board of Education.  <br><br>I was a little dismayed when I was informed that you were inclined to support him and was wondering if that were actually so and, if so, why you would choose to do that. Support for McLeroy is clearly correlated with support for a Biblical interpretation of nature while opposition to him is clearly related to education.   Let me share a little data:<br>
<div class="headings">
                  <h4>February 11, 2009</h4><div class="authorDisplayLine1">by Frank Newport</div>
                </div>
                <div class="cmsbody" id="pagingwrapper"><p>PRINCETON,
NJ -- On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin&#39;s birth, a
new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans say they &quot;believe in
the theory of evolution,&quot; while a quarter say they do not believe in
the theory, and another 36% don&#39;t have an opinion either way. These
attitudes are strongly related to education and, to an even greater
degree, religiosity.</p>
<p align="center"></p>
<p>There is a strong relationship between education and belief in
Darwin&#39;s theory, as might be expected, ranging from 21% of those with
high-school educations or less to 74% of those with postgraduate
degrees.</p>
<p align="center"><img alt="lvtmmfl19eqfl0cpgxojzw" src="http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/lvtmmfl19eqfl0cpgxojzw.gif" width="494" border="0" height="314"></p>
<p>Those with high-school educations or less are much more likely to
have no opinion than are those who have more formal education. Still,
among those with high-school educations or less who have an opinion on
Darwin&#39;s theory, more say they do not believe in evolution than say
they believe in it. For all other groups, and in particular those who
have at least a college degree, belief is significantly higher than
nonbelief.</p>
<p>Darwin&#39;s theory has been at the forefront of religious debate since he published <em>On the Origin of Species</em>
150 years ago. Even to this day, highly religious individuals claim
that the theory of evolution contradicts the story of creation as
outlined in the book of Genesis in the Bible.&quot;</p><a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/Darwin-Birthday-Believe-Evolution.aspx">Gallup Poll</a><br><br>I understand that you are personally well educated and sincerely doubt that a graduate of the academy would adhere to a &#39;fixed earth&#39; doctrine as does McLeroy. It seems to me that<i> if </i>you support him  there must be compelling political reasons for you to do so.  If so let me beg you to reconsider; please don&#39;t sacrifice education on the alter of partisan politics.<br>
<br>Very sincerely,<br><br>Ian Reid<br><br><a href="http://www2.hawaii.edu/%7Edaniel/bacon.html">Roger Bacon&#39;s Four Stumbling Blocks to Truth</a><br><br></div><p align="center"><br></p><p align="center"><br></p><br>


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      <em>Ian Reid @ 23:42 PM</em>
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     <h2 class="date-header">Saturday, 03 January 2009</h2>
      
   <div class="post"><a name=1></a>
    <h3 class="post-title">Re: God vs. Man?</h3>
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Dear Jon,<br>
<br>
Thanks again for a sincere and thoughtful reply.&nbsp; I think if I were the
minister in an amen-ministries church I might have written much the
same thing.<br>
<br>
But I'm not.&nbsp; I'm the guy that doesn't recognize a "God vs. Science"
polarity.&nbsp; If anything, I recognize a "God vs. Gospel" polarity and
place the problem at the feet of those (like yourself) who presume to
speak for the Lord.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
I'm pretty firm in my view that all words are spoken (and/or written)
by man and anyone presuming to speak for God is either misguided or a
charlatan. God is willing to reveal his creation but we must open our
eyes to see it. That is science.<br>
<br>
You might surmise from what I've just written that I also reject the
notion that there is any conflict between "man's advancements" and
"God's sovereignty". God can be known from the outside in as in science
or the inside out as in meditation but he is never revealed in church
dogma. <br>
<br>
And it is only dogma that has you speaking of 'the end times'.&nbsp; People
were speaking of 'the end times' two thousand years ago and a few will
probably be speaking of 'the end times' two thousand years into the
future but I've put that kind of talk out of my life for now, until I
come to my own 'end time'. <br>
<br>
Your post sent me off on a merry chase that brought me some nice
articles about Christian-Rationalism.&nbsp; It seems to me that modern-day
Christians (such as yourself) are actually wanna-be Jews, people who
have tossed Christ's teachings out the window and cite mainly the old
testament, but Christian rationalism restores Christ and rationality.&nbsp;
You might check it out in your leisure.<br>
<br>
Warmest regards,<br>
<br>
Ian<br>
<br>
p.s. A very wise man once said, "Don't judge another until you've
walked a mile in his shoes. That way, you're a mile away and you have
his shoes"<br>
<br>
Amen Ministries wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:COL111-DS147E11F915EDD573CF6E289EE20@phx.gbl" type="cite">
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  <div>
  <div>Ian</div>
  <div>You certainly seem to have the conceptual and academic
complexity to sort out the God vs. Science polarity.&nbsp; Or <em>Faith</em>
in the Word of God vs. scientific empiricism. </div>
  <div>You as well seem to be caught on the proverbial horns of the
eschatological dilemma as to were to place your trust, in man's
advancements or God's sovereignty.&nbsp; </div>
  <div>The debate over separation of 'church and state' is really&nbsp;no
longer a viable turf for argument since the&nbsp;incoming Administration (as
well as the advancing secular world), and the social-progressive
left-of-center mind set, will erode away most of the religious
sanctifications&nbsp;upon which this Nation was founded.&nbsp; This is not
defeatism, rather a full and unabridged trust in God's outworking
of&nbsp;His endtime Plan (Eph. 1:10)&nbsp;[<em>That in the dispensation of the
fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:]</em><br>
  </div>
  <div>We are entering into the biblical time referred to as the 'great&nbsp;<em>apostasia'&nbsp;</em>(the
falling&nbsp;away from belief and reliance on scriptural <em>Truth of His
Word) </em>which must take place for the fulfillment of endtime
prophetic events, prior to the Tribulation Period.&nbsp; All of God's
creation is literally standing in the center of the Valley of Decision,
either we choose God or Man and their respective powers, supremacy, and
eternity.&nbsp; Prayerfully, you have made the right decision.&nbsp; As long as
the <em>merits&nbsp;of the decision</em> are argued, then the decision
remains subject to tomorrow's revelations. </div>
  <div>Bottom-line, we may not have as many tomorrow's as the
optimistic futurists foist on us, to make the critical mass decisions
that will follow us throughout eternity.</div>
  <div>Again, a Blessed New Year to you and yours.</div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div><img title="about:www.aamen.org" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-left: 3px;" src="part1.08050609.09050704_gmail.com_" originalleft="53" originaltop="459" border="0" height="52" width="50"></div>
  <div>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
  <div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; padding-top: 10pt;">-----
Original Message -----
  <div><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="mailto:dukimoto@gmail.com" href="mailto:dukimoto@gmail.com">Ian
Reid</a> </div>
  <div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="mailto:amen_ministries@hotmail.com" href="mailto:amen_ministries@hotmail.com">Amen Ministries</a> </div>
  <div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:37 PM</div>
  <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: Fw: God vs. Science?</div>
  </div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
Dear Jon,<br>
Thank you so very much for your thoughtful and considered reply.&nbsp; I am
somewhat aware of the editorials and commentaries in the Statesman but
saw them more as arguments in support of the separation of church and
state than as attacks against God.&nbsp; I just recently sent you links to
articles that support this separation and would welcome your
reactions.&nbsp; <br>
  <br>
It seems to me that we differ specifically in terms of how much
credibility we lend to Genesis.&nbsp; I think the authors told the story as
well as they understood it -- given their level of knowledge concerning
the of the workings of nature -- but that one can interpret Genesis
(and other Biblical passages)&nbsp; mythically without turning against God.<br>
  <br>
Thanks again,<br>
  <br>
Ian<br>
  <br>
p.s. I've read quite extensively about Christopher Columbus and it
seems totally mythical that he feared falling off the earth.&nbsp; He was
quite certain the earth was a sphere but was wrong in his estimate of
the diameter. He died believing he had reached Asia.&nbsp; (Following his
fourth voyage to America he was returned to Spain in chains.)<br>
Amen Ministries wrote:
  <blockquote cite="mid:COL111-DS14B4DCF85EA098AEA10F679EE50@phx.gbl" type="cite">
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    <strong><font size="4">Greetings Ian, in the New Year</font></strong>
    <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">The Letter-to-the-Editor
was in response to a series of Editorials and local Commentaries from
the UT arena, all of which were blatantly anti-Christian/God on their
face, along with an over-the-top-pitch for
Darwinism-Evolutionism-Secularism and even Atheism in place of
Christianity, for making sense out of the world and its current
anomalies.</font></div>
    <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">The Galileo association
seems to be from another point of argument ... during his time, Science
believed the earth was <em>Flat</em>, the Sun revolved around the
earth, and the earth was the center of the universe.&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></div>
    <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Science has gotten it
wrong, big time, throughout history. Galileo with his newly fashioned
telescopes, did dispel the Sun vs. Earth controversy.&nbsp; Christopher
Columbus was fearful he might sail off the edge of the earth when
reaching out for discovery of the New Americas. </font></div>
    <div>&nbsp;</div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><strong><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">As to God not wanting his creation to
'look up and see", the few scripture examples below set forth His
expectations for mankind.</font></strong></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><strong><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">How does the New Zealand Aborigine
become aware of God if he has no bible, no preacher, and can't read
modern-day translations? </font></strong></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><strong></strong></span>&nbsp;</div>
    <div><span style="color: rgb(95, 95, 95);"><strong><font color="#ff0000">Psalm 19: 1-3</font>&nbsp;The heavens declare the glory of
God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.&nbsp; 2&nbsp;Day unto day uttereth
speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3&nbsp;There is no speech
nor language, where their [the heavens'] voice is not heard. </strong></span></div>
    <div><strong><font color="#5f5f5f"><font color="#ff0000">Psalm 19:4b</font>
In them [the heavens] hath he set a tabernacle for the sun.</font></strong></div>
    <div><strong><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font color="#ff0000">Psalm 19:6</font></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;">&nbsp;His
going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the
ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. </span></strong></div>
    <div><strong><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><a title="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-43,GGLJ:en&amp;q=god+displayed+in+the+heavens" href="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-43,GGLJ:en&amp;q=god+displayed+in+the+heavens" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-43,GGLJ:en&amp;q=god+displayed+in+the+heavens</a></span></strong></div>
    <div><strong><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"></span></strong>&nbsp;</div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Science has been the modern boon to
mankind's efforts to cope with his environment, disease, and
understanding of the mysteries of the earth/skies ... we just fully
mapped the human gnome two years ago and are now into Nano Technology.&nbsp;
When Darwinism (Evolution/Science vs. Creationism/Intelligent Design)
comes into discussion .... I often say&nbsp; to those which hold to Darwin's
Origin of the Species ... as things really start to go wrong (e.g.,
domestic&nbsp; terrorism, nuclear exchanges) consider praying to 'Darwin'
and see what he can do about it. </font></span></div>
    <div><strong><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"></span></strong>&nbsp;</div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="3"><strong>The crux of my Letter
was "</strong>The false premise here is that science, </font></font></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Darwinism and technology will save us
from ourselves and the terribleness </font></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">of the endtimes, which forebode
eminent homeland terrorism, catastrophic </font></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="3">economic sinkholes, flaming
civil unrest and a potential cratering of America.<strong>"</strong></font></font></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><strong></strong></span>&nbsp;</div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">If Science is the <em>savior of
mankind</em>, then we are only as safe as the last discovery ... they
still can't conquer HIV, the virus mutates too quickly and morphs into
unknown strains.&nbsp; It is one of the biblical endtimes plagues. </font></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">May this New Year bring you continued
health, property and happiness in all of your doings.</font></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><font face="Lucida Calligraphy" size="2"><strong>JDH</strong></font></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"></span>&nbsp;</div>
    </div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"><a title="about:www.aamen.org" href="www.aamen.org" moz-do-not-send="true">
    <div title="www.aamen.org
CTRL + Click to follow link"><img title="about:www.aamen.org" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-left: 3px;" src="part1.08050609.09050704_gmail.com_" border="0" height="52" width="50"></div>
    </a></span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span>
    <div><strong><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"></span></strong>&nbsp;</div>
    <div><strong><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(95, 95, 95); font-family: Verdana;"></span></strong>&nbsp;</div>
    </div>
    <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; padding-top: 10pt; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message -----
    <div><b>From:</b> <a title="mailto:dukimoto@gmail.com" href="mailto:dukimoto@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Ian Reid</a> </div>
    <div><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:amen_ministries@hotmail.com" href="mailto:amen_ministries@hotmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">amen_ministries@hotmail.com</a>
    </div>
    <div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:44 PM</div>
    <div><b>Subject:</b> God vs. Science?</div>
    </div>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div>Dear Jon,<br>
I recently read the letter you sent to the Austin American Statesman,
to <br>
wit:<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
    <div>"The pernicious and evil-minded attacks on Christianity and
God by the <br>
editorial moguls at the America-Statesman continue. However, the "us"
of <br>
the Statesman's apostasy does not represent the whole of Austin.<br>
    <br>
The false premise here is that science, Darwinism and technology will <br>
save us from ourselves and the terribleness of the endtimes, which <br>
forebode eminent homeland terrorism, catastrophic economic sinkholes, <br>
flaming civil unrest and a potential cratering of America.<br>
    <br>
As we teeter on the precipice of consequences beyond our human control,
    <br>
we find ourselves smack-up against the choice of science vs. God. We <br>
know which the Statesman has chosen. Don't go there!<br>
    <br>
Jon D. Hannum<br>
    <br>
Amen Ministries of Austin"<br>
    <br>
It is my understanding that 'science' first came into conflict with <br>
organized religion when Galileo pointed out that, contrary to church <br>
doctrine, there were moons going around Jupiter.&nbsp; No where that I know <br>
of did God ever say there were no moons and perhaps at that moment <br>
Galileo stood closer to God that the church fathers but that's my view <br>
and I wanted to get your take on it.&nbsp; Did God not want us to look to
the <br>
skies and to see?<br>
    <br>
    <br>
Or what?<br>
    <br>
Ian<br>
    <br>
    <br>
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      <em>Ian Reid @ 16:19 PM</em>
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